Hey everyone, here are some questions we need to think about for this trip and how we want to go with it questions in black, simons comments in green, blue text is links, my comments in red are just to get a thought process flowing, there is a comments section on the bottom of the page if you want to pose something to the group. I will need to aprove the first one so it may take a day for you to see it but after that any posts you make will be immediate.
- YES, For a any size group we can offer this, with 4 or 5 the additional private program expense is mitigated almost entirely over a scheduled course
- What is the min/max group size? No min, max of 8 just based on the rivers we use. We would have 2 instructors with more than 4 pax. the less people on the program the higher the cost. That is the only limitation
What is the max size that we would want for the course? keep it small and get bang for our buck instructor wise or max it out at 8? what do we expect of the people joining us do they need a swift water course? do they need to have their own rescue gear? do they need to be comfortable class 3? I only asked because I recently watched a video like this and I dont want to be like this person - What is the cost? This will largely depend on group size and what we provide/where we stay etc. Would be good to discuss this further. Our regular 5 day creeking course we stay in trapper tents, provide food and a cook/driver, visits to hot springs etc. That course is around $1200 + gst per person. It sounds like with you guys we could keep the accommodation/location flexible and, in a lot of cases could camp for free. If you wanted to do food (and feed our instructor(s), and then pay for accommodation on the fly as we went then, that would affect the price for sure. I do recommend still having a driver, it makes some of the longer shuttles we do so much better. Let me know yours and the groups thoughts on this and we can come up with a plan
If we do our own logistics we can save some money but it is going to eat in to someones vacation time as they will have to head down 2-3 days early to shop rent vehicle, figure out camping locations etc etc and there will be costs associated with that as well. For the hassle and tight time line it may not be even worth it and it will be easier for all just to pony up the dough. if they bring their own vehicle down then potentially we could get our own boats down and throw someone money for gas. do we want to split out logistics and do our own food and they provide accomodations? If we want to do our own we will talk to simon and see how much we will save and bring it to the group. - What is best time to set up to a course (keeping in mind best probability for good river levels)? For our local front range runs late may to mid june is usually a good bet. Depending on how we set up the program we could be very flexible in where we paddle based on water levels etc. Our local zone has so many great creeking teaching runs that would fantastic if that spring time worked for you guys.
Ok this one is a tricky one for me. I know for a fact I will be in the bush from june 5 or 6 to June 9 or 10. I can do the week beforew or the week after that does anyone else have any considersations? - Should we plan bring all gear down from Whitehorse? (Most of the crew would probably be flying down from Whitehorse). I wouldnt bother with boats. Though if you could bring your own paddlign gear (and paddles if that works, no worries if not) that would be great. We would include boats etc in the trip price (as we do with all our programs)
it would be nice to have my own boat but I can rig up any mamba to work for me really quick and bring all my personal gear - Would we be able to get transportation from YYC airport? YES, no worries
sweet - What would rough schedule look like? How many days paddling? 5 days
so that would be 7 days for us if we flew or potentially more if someone drives Im up for more days ( but think we’ll be pretty tired by 3 days) - Accommodations and food? Lets discuss this. We can facilitate this however works best. Our regular creeking ourses are at Sundance lodges in their ultra comfy trapper tents. We can arrange hotels in advance or we can do accommodation on the fly and keep things flexible. For food, we do this trip fully catered and the food is really good. We can do self catered which helps with the price or whatever works for you.
Once again there are pluses and minuses to doing our own or having it catered. I ma not want to cook on my nightafter getting beatered in a hole for 5 minutes ( see video above). I’m open to either - Payments and/or deposits? We would simply ask for a 50% deposit to book and hold the date. Full payment would be due 60 days prior to the trip departure.
Thats fair. Maybe to make it easier on everyone we could collect 25% now to confirm peoples interest and collect another 25% in Feb to pay the deposit? I have paddled with people in the past and the money down was to see if people were serious about coming or just holding a potential spot. If they back out they lose the 25% unless we can find another paddler WE want to paddle with. I think thats fair…. you guys? - Any considerations for me to take back to group? I think just how long you would like the program to be, do you want to have a shuttle driver on the course or would you prefer to have a rental car and do our own shuttles? Also, what setup for food and accommodation? Do you want to keep it bare bones and we just provide instructors and drivers plus gear and the direction of where to go and when, or would you like it setup a little more formally and a bit more full service? Again, we can accommodate really any combination of food, accoms etc. I am really looking forward to discussing this further. Please let me know your thoughts and I am stoked to start planning this. Oh, also, any specific skills (tangible or intangible) that your group really wants calrity/instruction on. We look at this program as very much a holistic approach (from hard paddlign skills to soft communication/setting safety skills) to upper end kayak instruction
What skills do we want to come from this? I would like to see a mix of skills, river running, river safety setup and communications, how to read a hole or line better, different paddling techniques to paddle more efficiently and I would like to practice them all heavily. I plan on sleeping on the plane when were done!
remember that your first comment won’t post right away I need to approve it but all posts after the approval will be immediate
1) Min-Max Group: I think 6 it would be a good number (3 paddlers: 1 instructor). If we choose to go with more paddlers, they should be all solid class 3 working into class 4 (with rescue gear, swift water course -all components needed to run harder stuff safely as a group) and be a good fit for the group.
2) Cost: I think if we are going to keep with the regular creeking program from Aquabatics, it may be easier to have lodging, transportation and maybe food provided. If we need to deviate due to water levels, I would take an adaptive approach and plan to tent, provide my own food and having transportation provided by Aquabatics. I think if we had to deviate from the established routine Simon would have a good idea of where to camp and he’d have the logistics dialed in, we could probably figure out our own food.
3) Boats: I’m cool running another boat that’s not mine (I think they have Mambas). Ideally having my own boat would be the best option.
4) I like the 7 day vacation with 5 days on the river… although I could be persuaded for more!!!!
5) Accommodation and Food: I’m easy here. I could easily stay in trapper tents if the course plan is as stated. For food due to my diet (intolerance, I may have plan my own meals or bring prepared stuff down) I defer to group choice in regards to food and will not be fussed on way or the other.
6) I agree with Sean in regards to deposit.
7) What do I want out of this course? I would have to agree with Sean’s points completely. I would like to dial in the boof and skillfully/technically run harder stuff with safety being priority.
I am pretty stocked to have the chance to run this course with everybody. I think it would be an awesome opportunity to run different rivers while getting great instruction. We would be gaining experience running harder rivers as a team and we could take these skills/techniques back home and run our home runs more safely as a crew.
Feel free to share your thoughts and ideas!!!!
Thanks,
Dave L.
1)I think six is a good number, that will be 8 ppl on the river, more would be crowded and less one on one instruction.
2) I’m happy to pay the 1200, have a wall tent, not worry about food shopping or packing camp cook gear, and having a driver. I’m very much in favour of a driver, I do nit think think the savings would be even close to making up for the pain in the ass of having two cars and running shuttles. if Simon figures it’s easy to chase water levels with a tent and camping I’ll be good, trip is about kayaking, not the accommodation so I’m easy. Dave will be all lonely and on his weak genetic self either way. Cost of food is certainly more equitable if we do our own. I’m willing to eat some of daves bill if we go with the full catered deal because he may not be able to enjoy that and have to have his own food. I’m also good with eating like a hippy if the cooks are able to just make Dave friendly food. I think that would be ideal.
3)don’t care about boats, I have been in many and I find that changing boats has forced me to learn more about water and less about how to work one boat
4) yup yup 2 travel days 5 wet ones. Yup yup yup Petry likes yup yup
5) see response to number 2
6)I’ll pay honest!!! I think a straight up 50% is fine. life happens though, if someone can’t come, we as a group can find an alternate and they can pay the poor soul who had to bail. But the trip will be secure and if we need to cough up an extra 120 each to cover Simon for the missing slot, not a huge deal.
7) kayak specific rescue/safety
YES boofing
Reading/planning lines
I’d like to dial in hitting micro eddys
I’m stoked. Like really stoked (not stocked like Dave though)… healing well, I have been surfing this week and it’s ok.. mostly. so I should be in a boat before Christmas!! ?
Sorry for chiming in late! Me thinks all of you guys have hit the nail on the head.
1) Totally agree with 6
2) Cost is fine with me – I’m more inclined to do the “they take care of everything” approach. I usually take the approach of planning and doing all my own stuff during my trips. It would be nice to be a bit more “pampered” for once. Plus means no one gets the shaft of having to cook and clean after getting beatered real good….
3) I’d actually prefer to not have my own boat. I’m kinda thinking of trying to find a different creeker and it would be nice to try something else.
4) Agree with 7 days (2 days travel / 5 days paddling). Would not complain at a longer trip, usually end up getting paid out for a bit of banked time/vacation each year.
5) I’m supper flexible on food and don’t mind tailoring to suit needs.
6) I’m good with any sort of deposit scheme you guys think.
7) How many times can i say boof? Besides what you guys have said it would be nice to have a bit more on the line finding/planning side and making the go/no go decision quicker (ie running something like No-Show and making up my damn mind quicker). May not be something that comes out of this course though.
Besides the undoubtedly awesome boating experience, I’d be looking at this a a mini-holiday and would probably go for a less-involved on the logistics side.
Hey,
I was chatting with Tim, I don’t think the dates are working for him. I’m not speaking for him but I think he is out. They leave on their trip beginning of May. Sean, did you ask Rob if he is interested? I imagine he’d be training for the River Quest, but worth asking. It’d be nice to keep the crew at six if we can. Thoughts?
hey quinn No i hadnt asked rob but maybe we should. we want to meet soon and get our dates hammered out.
Hi Sean, after talking today and looking at the dates I would be in for it. Let me know if the group is ok with that. Cheers Gunnar
tirschmann@hotmail.com
Hey Simon,
No worries about phone call. We lost one member of the group due to a serious shoulder injury (3 surgeries needed). With that we are down to 4 confirmed. We would look to have a driver, food and shelter provided (as per usual course). We are still keen to flexible in order to make the most of the trip.
So far we have settled on the following dates (Does this work for you?)
– June 12 – Fly down to Calgary, arrive YYC at 2000 local
– June 13 to June 17 – Paddle
– June 18 – Depart YYC at 1400 local
Questions;
1. What is the cost difference between 4,5 and 6 boaters? We are wondering if its in our best interest to find more members. We think 6 would be absolutely max for us. We are also fine with 4 boaters
2. What are the negative aspects of coming early, say May?
3. Logistical Questions?
a. Do we provide our own sleeping bags and pads?
b. How do we dry our gear?
4. Are there any concerns or factors to consider when running a course of five days?
Please visit this website where Sean has setup an ability for us to comment on his webpages versus email or text. I will append this email there and you could either respond to on the website or email me and I will upload your answers on the site. As well you can gauge what each member is looking to get out the course.
http://orcaboy.com/creeking-course-2017/logistics/
http://orcaboy.com/creeking-course-2017/
Thanks in advance,
David Lariviere
Gday Dave
Thanks so much for the questions and details. I have responded below in GREEN
So far we have settled on the following dates (Does this work for you?) IT SURE DOES!
– June 12 – Fly down to Calgary, arrive YYC at 2000 local
– June 13 to June 17 – Paddle
– June 18 – Depart YYC at 1400 local
Questions;
1. What is the cost difference between 4,5 and 6 boaters? We are wondering if its in our best interest to find more members. We think 6 would be absolutely max for us. We are also fine with 4 boaters
THE PRICE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 4 AND 5 IS 0 (WE HAVE TO ADD AN EXTRA INSTRUCTOR FOR 2 OR 3 DAYS OF THE COURSE AT 5 WHICH OFFSETS ANY COST SAVINGS, 6 WILL ONLY BE A SMALL SAVING)
2. What are the negative aspects of coming early, say May? WE RISK NOT HAVING ENOUGH WATER TO PADDLE OUR LOCAL RUNS. IF THAT WAS THE CASE WE WOULD JUST HAVE TO BE MORE MOBILE. AS WE DIAL THIS IN WE WILL COME UP WITH A PLAN B SCENARIO IF WE HAVE TO MOVE. IF WE BOOK THE TRAPPER TENT ACCOMMODATION IT IS NON-REFUNDABLE, SO, MAYBE WE OUTLINE A PLAN B FUND FOR ATTENDEES FOR POTENTIAL EXTRA ACCOMMODATION EXPENSES. WE CAN ALWAYS CAMP FOR FREE, THOUGH SOME MAY NOT WANT TO DO THAT. LET ME KNOW IF YOU WOULD LIKE MORE CLARIFICATION ON THAT. FOR WHAT ITS WORTH I THINK YOUR TIMING IS SOLID
3. Logistical Questions
a. Do we provide our own sleeping bags and pads? YES, IDEALLY. OTHERWISE WE CAN RENT THEM FROM THE U OF C OUTDOOR CENTER, BUT THERE WOULD BE AN EXTRA COST ASSOCIATED WITH THAT. THE TRAPPER TENTS HAVE BEDS WITH MATTRESSES, SO THERMA RESTS WOULD ONLY BE REQUIRED IF OUR PLAN B INVOLVED REGULAR CAMPING
b. How do we dry our gear? TRAPPER TENTS HAVE HIGH POWERED GAS HEATERS IN THEM. THEY DO A GREAT JOB OF DRYING GEAR. I WOULD RECOMMEND, GIVEN THE TIME OF YEAR THAT EVERYONE HAVE DRYSUITS IF POSSIBLE
4. Are there any concerns or factors to consider when running a course of five days? IT IS A BUNCH OF DAYS PADDLING IN A ROW. JUST MAKING SURE THE GROUP COMMUNICATES WITH THE INSTRUCTORS TO MAKE SURE WE DON’T BLOWOUT ENERGY WISE TOO EARLY. WE ARE DEFINITELY NEVER ACCUSED OF PEOPLE NOT GETTING ENOUGH TIME ON THE WATER… HA HA. THE FITTER AND STRONGER PEOPLE CAN COME TO THE PROGRAM THE MORE THEY WILL GET OUT OF IT!
I hope that all makes sense. Please continue firing me questions and we can go from there. Also, wish your amigo with the bung shoulder a speedy recovery. I know too well how much shoulder injuries suck
Looking forward to your reply
Simon
On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 1:26 PM, David Lariviere wrote:
Hey Simon,
No worries about phone call. We lost one member of the group due to a serious shoulder injury (3 surgeries needed). With that we are down to 4 confirmed. We would look to have a driver, food and shelter provided (as per usual course). We are still keen to flexible in order to make the most of the trip.
So far we have settled on the following dates (Does this work for you?)
– June 12 – Fly down to Calgary, arrive YYC at 2000 local
– June 13 to June 17 – Paddle
– June 18 – Depart YYC at 1400 local
Questions;
1. What is the cost difference between 4,5 and 6 boaters? We are wondering if its in our best interest to find more members. We think 6 would be absolutely max for us. We are also fine with 4 boaters
2. What are the negative aspects of coming early, say May?
3. Logistical Questions
a. Do we provide our own sleeping bags and pads?
b. How do we dry our gear?
4. Are there any concerns or factors to consider when running a course of five days?
Please visit this website where Sean has setup an ability for us to comment on his webpages versus email or text. I will append this email there and you could either respond to on the website or email me and I will upload your answers on the site. As well you can gauge what each member is looking to get out the course.
http://orcaboy.com/creeking-course-2017/logistics/
http://orcaboy.com/creeking-course-2017/
Thanks in advance,
David Larivierie
On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:28 PM, simon wrote:
Hi Dave
Super sorry I missed you all. my meeting ended up finishing at 10.15 our time. planning a full summer progression for a bunch of teenagers wanting to paddle class IV. lots of discussion with parents.
Guessing it is too late now. if you want to call me I am driving home now.
Otherwise stoked to hear your questions.
Cheers
Simon
Hi David
Thanks so much for all the details. The per person price including everything below will be $1499 + gst. This is a few hundred dollars more than our scheduled trip, mainly due to the fact that there are only 4 of you, and the airport shuttles.
INCLUSIONS:
Instructor (1:4 ratio)
Cook/Driver
Exclusive use of van and trailer for the trip
Airport shuttles (to and from airport)
Any gear you need
Meals: Lunch and dinner on Day 1; Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner on Day 2, Breakfast and Lunch on Day 3; Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner on Day 4, Breakfast and Lunch on Day 5. (Note: one evening meal is out in Banff, and paddlers are responsible for that)
Twin share accommodation in trapper tents (from Monday evening to Friday/ 4 nights)
5 days on the water
Entry to Banff National Park
Once you give me the green light on this I will get you and the crew a full itinerary and gear list.
Thanks so much and really looking forward to making this happen
Simon
OK guys, if there is still a spot available I would be keen to join. Let me know
I think so. I’m not full of details but I believe Marc is confirmed out so we have room I think. Hope it works out, should be fun
Cheers